Flaws Overwhelm as Jewish Singles Flounder
People who follow this blog or my column and reactions to both already know that I have an issue with people who are too picky (even though there are others who think that I myself, as representative of all Upper West Side singles, am too picky, which is another conversation).
But I wanted to share this letter that went to the Jewish Press from a lonely, 37-year-old religious single woman who wants to get married, but found herself dating a man she describes as “a nerd” to whom she “can’t relate romantically.”
There’s more to it that that. Reading it will reveal some of the problems that many of us have noticed about the (let’s call it “moderately observant”) Jewish singles world: shadchanim (matchmakers) who operate through what they’d consider “tough love” but which hurts singles tremendously by criticizing personal appearance; men who date but are reluctant to commit; a posse of friends that becomes family and may in fact hinder progress toward finding a partner; the power problem when a woman’s profession makes a man feel threatened; the challenge of looking at a person in totality as opposed to just on a superficial level; the specter of a previous relationship tainting future romantic expectations; a ticking biological clock; an acknowledgment of one’s own flaws and perhaps a hesitation to accept the flaws of others; whether religious shidduchim operate on a different level than those that aren’t Orthodox; communal pressure both in the US and in Israel to have children to increase Jewish demographics, etc…enough to fuel years of singles columns in multiple newspapers.
This letter, however, is not the only such letter that column has received. In fact, it was written in response to a similar letter, also printed by the Jewish Press and written by a 36 year old woman who was faced with a choice: marry someone you don’t love but have children or stay single and childless forever. (Because those are apparently the only two choices.)
The resulting rebbetzin’s response:
You have to consider that you are now 36 years old. Your biological clock is ticking away and you have a small window of opportunity to marry and bring children into this world. I would not, G-d forbid want to receive a letter from you five years hence saying, “Rebbetzin, I should have married him. I’m so lonely. I want so desperately to have children.â€
I can’t begin to tell you how many single people have sounded that lament. It is wonderful that you are devoted to your nieces and nephews, but at the end of the day, you want to have your own children. You not only want to be an aunt…you want to be a mommy.
So ask yourself these questions: 1) Will this man be a good father to my children? Once you have children, they become your primary concern. 2) Is this man someone whom I can respect? If there is respect, love will follow, but if there is love without respect, then disdain follows. 3) Does this man share my aspirations for life? Does he have the same beliefs that I do? Does he want to raise our children in the same spirit as I do? 4) Is he good-hearted? Is he kind and considerate? (I always tell singles that even the most handsome face, the most brilliant mind and the wittiest personality can become repulsive overnight if he is not good-hearted.)
From your letter it seems to me that the answers to these questions are a resounding yes. So, unless there is something that you did not communicate in your letter, I would recommend that you move ahead and with mazel and brachah establish your own home and raise a beautiful family of Torah children.
This response makes me uneasy, for so many reasons, but primarily because I think this “marry someone even if you don’t love him just so you can have children and be like everyone else/save the Jewish people” thing is colossally bad advice. I have friends who have married and are now bitterly divorced, engaged in awful custody battles. I have friends who try everything, and yet remain single year after year, watching their nieces and nephews grow into mini-adults, as the clock keeps ticking and the Jewish communal world keeps pushing. I know women who have lowered their standards to permit them to date outside the faith, because “when you reach a certain point, all that really matters is love.” I know women who have tired of waiting for a life-partner and have pushed ahead into motherhood, flying solo; and I know many other women who don’t have the money or the personal strength to do that. Or maybe they’re just afraid or reluctant to announce to the world: “This dating thing? I’m done.”
My brain gets all jumbled when I think of “marry anyone or be alone forever” as my only two options. I don’t expect Hollywood style fireworks or romantic magic at every turn (although I still may be extremely happy if I get them). I don’t have a preconceived notion of who he is or what he looks like. He might be–and in all likelihood, will be–a nerd. But I’d like to think that I’ll at least have love for the man to whose future I would bind my own. And I would hope that all my single sisters will as well.
Well, Esther, you probably knew I’d comment on this one as you know my opinions closely follow yours on these things. Here’s the answer J-Ball would have given had she written in, not that I have an advice column (I’d probably need three lawyers and a bodyguard based on the sort of advice I give). But this is what it would be:
Ask yourself this question: Which is the worst outcome you could imagine? Being alone and childless or living in a loveless marriage? Because we all have our own tolerance levels and I can’t possibly pretend to tell you which would be your own personal hell. Not to say that either of these WILL be your outcome, G-d forbid, as the Rebbetzin would say, but you should always think of the worst possible scenario that might result and make your decisions with that in mind. Try if possible to separate your own personal feelings from those of your parents and the Jewish people. If possible.
BTW, I adore this quote from Rebbetzin Jungreis, “So, unless there is something that you did not communicate in your letter…” Gee, Rebbetzin, what part of “I just don’t feel anything toward him” was so hard to understand?
“Family of Torah children”… that sounds eerily like the “Manson family,” or “Children of the Corn,” or something equally as unsettling.
Is there no better authority figure in the orthodox community from whom these women can seek advice?
I had several reactions to this. On a crowded battlefield with lines of battle going back and forth for many hours, perhaps days, you can sometimes find the rarest of rare artifacts. A bullet hit by another bullet. Think of the chances of that. It’s just remarkable.
So here we have 2 powerful forces meeting on the battle for our hearts. The battle of wants & needs meets the battle of true desires, of intentions and actions and the reality of existence that always falls far short of our desires. And the bullets meet & smash together, the force of their momentum is stopped and canceled out, and they fall to the ground. So the result is inaction, more frustration & continued agony of indecision.
Rebbetzin Esther Jungreis gives some good, solid, if traditional advice. Naturally, even among the faithful & deeply religious, her advice seems to be rejected out of hand, so intense is this question to our personal well being & continued psychological survival.
So again, we need to listen harder and think more deeply. The woman in question who wrote in left her high paying job as a successful lawyer in NYC to pull up and move to Israel precisely for the reason that she thought it would give her some better chances of finding a good husband. Then she confirms what many of already know: “Unfortunately however, the shidduch scene here is not much better than it was in New York.”
Still recently presented with a very likely candidate, she says :
“I recognize that he is a good person, but I just don’t feel anything toward him…I don’t feel that “magic connection†that is supposed to bond husband and wife. He is very sweet and kind, but, forgive me for saying this, he is also rather “nerdy.†I can’t explain it –he’s just a nerd. I can’t relate to him romantically. My parents came to visit, met him, and thought he was a great guy and were very upset that I didn’t say yes”.
This is fine. No one should force anyone to accept that which is not acceptable to them, not in this day & age certainly. But this is a tremendously serious and ongoing problem for ALL religious communities, regardless of denomination. The guys who are most likely to share your deep faith, are precisely those ‘nerdy’ types who have deliberately divorced themselves from the wider cultural currents in order to immerse themselves in study, and to become more faithful. They are not going to be the romantic leading figures you see on TV & in the movies burning with flames of passion & desire. Yes, they’re NERDS. Still far worse, many if not deeply unaware of this tragic fact, are still seemingly fairly unconcerned about this fate that will possibly leave them bachelors well into their 40’s& 50’s. (If they’re lucky we imagine!)
And all this begets a level of anger and wrath & suspicion rained down on each other, the possible objects of our affections and members of the community worse than any verbal carpet bombing imaginable.
But let’s listen again to what the Rebbetzin’s advice was:
“So ask yourself these questions: 1) Will this man be a good father to my children? Once you have children, they become your primary concern. 2) Is this man someone whom I can respect? If there is respect, love will follow, but if there is love without respect, then disdain follows. 3) Does this man share my aspirations for life? Does he have the same beliefs that I do? Does he want to raise our children in the same spirit as I do? 4) Is he good-hearted? Is he kind and considerate? (I always tell singles that even the most handsome face, the most brilliant mind and the wittiest personality can become repulsive overnight if he is not good-hearted.) ”
There’s no doubt about it. Those are some of the most 3 essential questions anyone should ask of a potential mate, especially should you desire children. There’s nothing wrong with recognizing this fact. It was just as true perhaps 1000 years ago too.
But still everyone can ask for a little bit more, eh? (If only he/she had…). Again no one is asking anyone to forgo, neglect or disrespect their deepest self or essential desires. And we should now recognize that single motherhood should be considered a respectable viable option for women approaching menopause who deeply desire a child of their own and who remain yet unmarried. There’s nothing wrong with adoption. And fine Jewish kids can be had via either avenue. But legal adoption as a single also tends to get legally difficult after 40-50 too.
We should also recognize that for everyone that ‘magic connection’ of romance is and can be different at 20 than it is at 30 and a bit different again at 40 & 50. This is life, we know more than we did in our 20’s at later ages. Perhaps we demand different & more ‘things’, perhaps we’re more forgiving of physical flaws, more needy of ‘financial security’ and of ‘stability of mind & family situations’.
But it’s all often expressed as a jumble of incoherent & unacknowledged desires & unmet needs. The woman who once desired finely chiseled features of a ‘tall, dark & handsome’ type, now likes a more affectionate partner more willing to hug, snuggle & smile. The man who wanted the perfect fashion plate of a size 0 0r at most a 4, now knows that if he wants kids at 40 & a working CPA, something well north of that is much more likely & perfectly acceptable. But often they’re still unwilling to acknowledge this up front. They all recoil from the untidy possible standing in front of them. The nerdy, perhaps disheveled, deeply ‘uncool’, but decent human in front of them. And the sadness & the tragedy is that they’re both likely to pass each other like ‘ships in the night’, never knowing or recognizing the real possibilities.
So the Rebbetzin & parents keen and mourns for these ever present possibilities. And singles everywhere, saturated in a new age of communication ask everyone the same 2 questions on the matter: ‘Is that all there is?’ and ‘Can I have a little bit more?’ Of course the answers to both existential questions are a simple & resoundingly ‘Yes’! But unfortunately sometimes not at a time of your choosing. Looking for that ‘more perfect mate’ will possibly strangely take many much more time than their parents were ever actually married. Many will avoid the pitfalls that befell their parent’s generation, but at the significant cost and hazard of having fewer children, and going single for much longer periods of time than almost any prior generation. Those are the costs and ‘worse case scenario’ on one side. The divorce dramas many cite above is the other side many have in the front of their minds as the horrors they seek to avoid. Actually the Rebbetzin is trying to speak to both.
Another overly long response that will be read by…??? Cheers & Good Luck! ‘VJ’
This kind of thing makes me glad I’m childfree, because minus the Judaism, that would probably be me in a few years if I did.
I’ve tried to settle. A lot. I hated every minute of it. I felt sick to my stomach. My heart bleeds at the idea of telling this girl to settle for someone she just plain doesn’t like all that much but he’s too nice to be able to shrug off without guilt. It also bleeds to think, “This guy you don’t like much is your one and only chance to have children, ever.”
*sigh*
One thing I didnt hear from this woman is whether this guy was her best friend? Outside of the lack of sexual feelings, did she love being around him? Talking to him? etc etc. Its not uncommon for two people to start dating without that heart-beating love connection, but they do find that they really like one another, love hanging out, being together, forming a caring “love” that can evolve to something wonderful over time. Unfortunately, many ‘singles’ cannot reach that point because, for them, if that “love connection” is not there from the get-go, they automatically move on, or move on when the honeymonn phase ends.
And it seems that this need for romantic love, is a bigger deal to women, than men. Men are often loath to ‘settle’ physically, but at some point in their 30s [healthy] men realize that that the cute young 25-year old is too young (and he is too old), and in the end, those 25-year olds eventually become 40 and 50 and 60 anyways, so the physicality becomes less important. Women seem to hold on to that literary notion of romantic love, and want it for all time.
I know a couple who everyone thinks has the best relationship, that they are so good together, so in synch, relate so well to eachother etc etc. But I know (in confidence) that while they are truly great friends – best friends who do connect really well- they arent madly in love. No goo goo eyes. No mad passionate sex. It was that way from the start. They never had that literary honeymoon phase. They met online and had a fantastic connection, but when they met in person that spark wasnt there for either, but they loved being with eachother enough to have the relationship continue. Do I feel bad for them? I dont know. I see so many couples that dont seem as good together; in fact many whom I cannot believe are together, and many whom I know (in confidence) arent so happy together. And some of those couples did in fact have that honeymoon phase in the beginning. But like her once hot bod, and his once beautiful head of hair, it too disappeared. So maybe what they have isnt so bad after all?
I dated this guy recently who was sweet, and smart and kind and interesting and the thought of kissing him made me involuntarily grit my teeth. What on earth do you do with that? How do you overcome the feeling that you are super glad someone is shomer negiah? Just take some anti-nausea medicine and power through it?
In light of this past week’s parashah, maybe we should consider something else. Just because your eyes are all weak or you are someone else’s slave girl, well, that shouldn’t stop you from having children/the man of your dreams. I am heartily sick of the single men available, but come on, some of my friends’ husbands are mighty cute. And, okay, there don’t seem to be any real good examples of these relationships being so healthy in the torah, and the rivalries seem to extend even to the next generation, but as long as we are considering all possibilities to save our women from cat lady status, maybe Jungris should be a bit more open-minded. Getting over revulsion of the single guys available isn’t the only answer! Start hitting on your friends’ husbands too! Come on people, there is a singles crises here. The 1000 years have lapsed on Rabbeinu Gershom’s takanah. And let’s not forget our Sephardi brethren, who never really gave up the custom. Let’s start thinking outside the box!
All good thoughts here. I think everyone thinks of that ‘other way’ in the back of their minds and rejects it all too soon perhaps. And I personally know of several relationships such as the ones 2 cents describes, and they can work out too. Often it’s not a ‘fate worse than death’. It’s just slightly unimaginable to this generation of perfectionists. They seek to avoid all the pitfalls that might lead to a potential ‘;nasty & brutal’ divorce, but remain wholly ignorant of the underlying causes of most divorces. Being out on the dating line for 15-20! years can be just as nasty & brutal, just in smaller more discrete doses.
There’s also the great Catch 22 playing out here too. As a young 20 something, you’re more open & susceptible to the blind blandishments & the call of young, naive, trusting love. You know better by your 30’s, and are much more deeply suspicious & cautious, (and probably naturally & necessarily so). This makes it much harder to commit to much of anything in your 30’s as you look towards that ‘more perfect’ mate you just know is out there for you. Meanwhile no one’s getting any younger, and body parts are drooping & sagging, waists are expanding & heavier guts are forming, and guys are balding. And everyone is moving more slowly and showing more of their age by the day.
So the plan actually works best when it works it’s magic as early as possible, and you’re then favored by time to work out some of the kinks together. You might be able to teach some romance to your spouse. Your career might take off and provide the security your spouse’s never promised to. Better insurance from that big firm may help the chronic issues with mamma’s health that always worried your spouse to death. There’s plenty of issues that can prevent a good match. These can easily accumulate with age, more discernment & knowledge. Often times this can & is a good thing, and prevents many disasters. But on the other side, it does mean that more people will be alone for much longer periods of their lives. There’s nothing inherently wrong with this, but it typically does not beget too many Jewish children.
But yeah, count me as thinking that tradition always can tech us something that we’ve forgotten. Even if we’d be hard pressed to imagine where we might be able to carry out such a vision! Cheers & Good Luck, ‘VJ’
“a posse of friends that becomes family and may in fact hinder progress toward finding a partner;”
Could you say more about this Esther? How does someone recognize if their friends are keeping them from finding a partner?
I’m going to give some advice that I wish someone had given me when I was single.
NOT EVERYONE FALLS IN LOVE! Look for close friendship instead, with a reasonable dash of sexual attraction thrown in.
Some people do fall in love, some think they do, and some never will.
I actually did fall in love. I was head over heels. I married her, and a few years later, I still love her, but I’m considering leaving her. We have very little in common and our goals seem to diverge more & more. She’s become very difficult to live with. I’m not referring to fighting or major disagreements. I just mean the little details of sharing a home and having guests and going out for activities. We just can’t seem to mesh and I look at the years ahead and I can’t imagine having a happy life with her.
My advice: Don’t look for a fairy tale romance. Love is a modern construct. If you like a person, enjoy spending time with them, laugh together, and feel like your goals and styles of living are compatible, even if you don’t feel “love†it may be worth going for.
“Love†is somewhat of an illusion. Whether you experience it or not is dependant upon your personality. If you are prone to overflowing emotion and extremes of mood, you will probably fall in love. If you’re a more laid back and less overemotional person, there’s a good chance you’ll never feel that over-the-top obsession with another person that western culture has defined as love.
Don’t hold out for “loveâ€. It doesn’t happen for everyone!
Isn’t a good friend, someone you can spend time with, someone you can laugh with, someone you can build a life with, someone who has the same life goals you do, kind of like love anyway?
Interesting thought, Yoel. I, too, can attest to having been crazy madly in love – more than once. That burning, heart misses a beat “love.” Yet, each of those loves were doomed and failed to last – mainly because love is blind, and I didnt notice – or rather ignored – the fact that there were too many flaws for it to be right. I guess thats why divorce rate is so high, as is the rate of singledom – people place importance on the wrong things.
Regarding Yoel’s comments:
“Here here!!”
I wholeheartedly support your well expressed words.
To loosely quote quote Eliyahu KiTov:
There is a commandment to love your God. Yet how can we make ourselves love God? What if the “chemistry is just not there?” Are we to be punished for not loving God? How is it our fault?
To begin with, Eliyahy Kitov says, all love starts off as narcicism, self-love. Love expressed towards others grows out of this first love.
It grows in two ways. The weaker way is when we see people who resemble us, and therefore love them as we love us. From this comes the tendency to marry people of similar backgrounds, and even looks, as ourselves.
The stronger form of love, though, comes from commiting oneself to others.
As we invest in others, we begin to see our investment when we look at them.
In our relationship to God, commiting oneself to God’s commadments and Torah leads to a love of God. And it is that commitment to which God is refering when he commands us to love our God.
The same logic can be applied to relationships. If you invest yourself in your husband, you will come to love him. When you recognize your husband in your children, you will come to love him more than you will know.
I have been in love many times, and it has brought me only misery. I have been married for years now, though, to my Beshert, whom I do not deserve. We commit ourselves to our home and family anew every day, and I could not love anyone else more.
Talking to single friends is like swimming in a pool explaining to your friends who are just dipping their toes in the water how refreshing it really is.
All of you out there… stop whining and just jump in. You will love it!
Good discussion everyone. I have to say that I believe that everyone deserves and should have love in their lives. Whether it’s romantic fairy tale love or best friends but deeper love. Ideally, both, but given a choice, I’d choose the latter, and always have.
In terms of whether friends are holding you back? I guess it’s a question of being comfortable where you are or wanting to move on to another stage. If you’re self-aware enough to balance the comfort of where you are and where you want to be, then terrific. But I know people who have been so comfortable with the same group of friends for over a decade that no one seems to progress.
I think that many people mistake crush for love. Crush is that feeling when your heart skips a bit every time you see the person and your hands get sweaty, and you feel like you’re capable of doing of all kinds of crazy things. In my opinion and experience, crush is almost always based on artificial things, primarily on appearance, and occasionally, on other attributes, like occupation (say, you think that doctors or firefighters are hot). Unfortunately, for the majority of people (and definitely for myself) that crush rarely becomes true love (it does happen, but it’s quite uncommon). I’ve had many crushes over the years, but when I think of my crushes as potential husbands, I am completely horrified. I would never, in a million years, would have been able to remain in a committed relationship with any of them, due to the lack of common interests, common values, etc. I did not have a crush on the guy I married, in fact, I was not even that attracted to him physically. But I gave him a chance, and the feelings came later. I never had that “crush” feeling for him, but we have a deeper bond which allowed our marriage to prosper for eight years now (and going strong). The crush feeling always eventually goes away, but what remains is what’s really important. So, I think, in a way, the rebbetzin has a point. It seems like the woman did not even give a poor guy a chance. My advice would be to take her time, and see what happens. She may be pleasantly surprised.
I did not have a crush on the guy I married, in fact, I was not even that attracted to him physically. But I gave him a chance, and the feelings came later. I never had that “crush†feeling for him, but we have a deeper bond which allowed our marriage to prosper for eight years now (and going strong).
IMK, please be a prosletyzer for giving nice guys a chance. I’ve had 2-3 girls reject me with whom I had so much in common and with whom flowing conversation was no problem. When I politely ask them why they don’t want to go out again – and tell them that my self-esteem can handle constructive criticism – I invariably get the “I just didn’t feel it.”
You don’t need to have to initially be ga-ga in love to have a strong marriage. If your expectations are too high you are only setting yourself up for disappointment.
Also, as the rebbetzen pointed out, a man who you aren’t totally crazy about might still be a great father. The J’lem transplant said her potential partner was “nerdy,” – well, sorry, not all of us guys can be the hint-of-danger rebellious dashing type. Those dangerous guys might not turn out to be the most supportive and generous.
Dear Daters Anonymous,
Leonard Cohen wrote “Love is the engine of survival.†We know that everyone’s definition of “love†is different. This occurs for many reasons including diverse personal and family experiences. The love problem as I see it is that many men and women cannot distinguish the difference between “hormonal†or “physical responses†to someone that they are attracted to and “an adult version of love.†When a man and woman are physically attracted to each other and over time; build a solid friendship built on mutual interests, trust, and respect, and then one of them says, “but I don’t love you†then you have a problem. There are many reasons why this occurs, such as psychological problems, poor understanding and expectations of what is a healthy relationship, or the belief that it is worth sacrificing a “great foundation†for an even stronger physical attraction. Unfortunately, some of these men or women will find that even these initial “floaty†or “dreamy†feelings become reduced over time. Often the person ends the relationship to move on to another and to repeat this pattern again.
I like what you wrote
I dont havet hat many nicethings to say for the Rebbetzin. However she is missing out on one big thing – the women just didnt say that she wasnt attracted to him – but that she thought he was a “nerd” – as in, I dont respect who he is and think that he is not good enough for me. If that isnt a recipe for disaster I dont know what is.
like Gugs, i also don’t have much to say about Esther Jungreis. though that could be because i had a very uncomfortable encounter with her once.
the bottom line is: if you’re with someone who you don’t really like all that much, then why drag out the inevitable? then again, why bother dating them in the first place if you’re not attracted to them or can’t relate? furthermore, dating or marrying someone just to fit in and make more Jewish babies is not good advice.