Group therapy in a blog.
Who Pays? Let’s Find the Answer, At Last
One of the most popular questions that people ask me on and off this blog is about who should pay on a first date. So let’s all just take the poll and we’ll come up with a definitive answer, once and for all. Need some help making your choice? Check out this post and see if it persuades you.
I’d like to suggest: “everyone goes Dutch for a long long time, because this argument gets old.”
I’m with Jennifer here. I really think that given this day and age, everyone should be going ‘Dutch’ for any number of very good reasons, at least at first. Then try and figure out who can afford it the most, and apportion the accounts accordingly, if so desired. That’s the most fair and equitable way of approaching this age old dilemma. And BTW: I want a recount since I only see 2 responses here! And yeah, I blame the ZANU for everything! Cheers & Good Luck, ‘VJ’
I’m not sure who “should” pay, nor do I really believe that there is a correct answer. However, I generally find that I no longer find this part of the date awkward, because I always plan to pay for myself unless someone specifically offers. If I enjoyed the date, I’ll usually accept their offer to treat, and if not– or if there is no verbal offer– I pay for myself. Maybe I should try and defy established gender roles, but I usually don’t offer to pay for my date until a few dates in. Feels strange.
I’m not sure that people debate this because they are genuinely concerned that their approach isn’t the “right way”– I think that it’s generally more of a question that is asked to avoid potential awkwardness, no?
Guy’s should always pick up the tab on the first meeting. Chivalry is not completely dead. That being said, however, make sure she at least offers to pay when the check comes (which you will refuse, of course, without a scene). If she doesn’t offer, you may have a problem on your hands.
The issue of ‘who pays for a first date?’ has NOTHING to do with the actual money involved – it is all about finding out whether the person you are with (both the guy AND the girl) has any manners. As a guy, if you are expecting a woman to pay for anything on a first date, you are a dick – especially if you were the one who invited her out (and if you are expecting ‘something in return’ because you paid, you are an even bigger dick). That being said, however, I DO want to know that the woman I am out with appreciated my gesture, and is not a ‘professional dater’ that never had any real interest in me and was only out for free food/entertainment at my expense because she had nothing better to do that night. So I will certainly be paying attention to whether you at least make an offer to pay, as well as the sincerity of your “thank you.” There are FAR too many great women out there for any guy to have to waste their time with someone that has a bad attitude.
My friend went on a first-meeting JDate just last night and when the bill came he asked her to split it. She felt obliged to chip in for her half…but was totally turned off. I echo previous posts – it’s not about money. It’s about manners. The guy emailed her this morning to ask for a second date…is he serious??
Yeah, this is why going Dutch makes so much more sense. Because people read into this all sorts of things that may just not be present. And the guys just can’t win, which is one reason why many of them actually rarely ‘date’. Go to a fancy restaurant in almost any big NE city, and you’re looking at a C-note for a bill. I’m sorry, but for Most people, this can only be a ‘once a quarter’ thing, at best perhaps once a month if you’re really ‘searching’ and well off.
So the rule is the guy Always pays for the ‘first date’, right? This is why people have ‘coffee’ or lunch dates. That way you can minimize the damage. But then some women might think, ‘Gee he’s just too cheap to take me to dinner, he does not think I’m worth it!’, and still reject the guy out of hand. So it’s all about reading into the situation things that may not be present. Most folks are financially strapped right now, and it’s bound to be getting much worse soon. So it’s yes, nice to be that guy who’s ‘chivalrous’ and wants to ‘pay for everything’, especially on a first date, but for many people, this is just not possible. Now some might say that that’s the ‘freight you’ve got to bear’ to date in the big city. Perhaps. And perhaps this is again yet another reason why ‘dating’ as common adult activity has literally ‘gone out of style’. You can ‘meet up with friends’ or simply ‘go out’, but the full dress Jdate rehearsal? You need that $40 per mo. to show up, and a C-Note in your teeth for even a lite dinner & drinks & parking anywhere in NYC. And perhaps at the end of it you may even find out that you ‘like’ the other person, but they seem uninterested in you, but seemed to appreciate the dinner & the gesture. And that’s graded as a Good Date!
Arguing over Manners & Money. Things that will kill a relationship before it even starts. Some are unwilling to even make the gesture of offering for a dinner they enjoyed, and some like Danielle will insist the guy’s Already an unworthy cad just for asking. I’m willing to bet that there’s many, many guys out there who are next to broke or not that well off, and yet are searching for someone to love & marry. They’ll hopefully find women who appreciate them for who they really are, and are willing to look beyond their pecuniary & ‘small’ financial circumstances to see the possibilities beyond. Most Guys 20-30 something just can not afford to date like this, at least not for long. Picking up the tab for every ‘interesting prospect’ could get very expensive very fast.
So no more worrying about ‘what he might expect’ after dinner. No more worrying about the limits on your charge/debit cards for all those unexpected charges. (Who has ‘hat & coat check gals’ anymore anyway!) No more worrying about whether to take Suzie or Kim to the dance/dinner, as you certainly can not afford both in the same month. No more fear that you might be walking home after being surreptitiously and semi-legally towed from a parking space that you paid for and have been using for months. Then needing $200 in cash to ‘spring’ your car from empoundment and the entire bill for the night coming close to $500, and the gal’s positively giddy. Not with your sorry butt mind you, but that the entire embarrassing ‘debacle’ is just So ‘blogworthy’ she can’t wait to get home to shout it out to her hommies and laugh about it once again. Yeah manners. Sheesh!
So Go Dutch! And ask not why no one seems to be dating much anymore. They’re all at home enjoying much cheaper entertainment (on a pro-rata basis). If the going rate for a single ‘meet & greet’ date is now above the costs the market is willing to bear, the market will collapse, or have to adjust to the new reality. Some people will wait forever for something that may just no longer be possible. There ARE some ‘traditional minded’ men out there willing to pay for everything on dates. Some of them Are still marriageable material too. Most of them will be 10-20 years older than your target audience however. Only some of them will be married too!
Think about it! Cheers & Good Luck, ‘VJ’
The Singles Map: There’s an ‘excess of 200K single women to single men’ in the NYC region. That’s the greatest disparity found by Richard Florida in the country. FYI. Cheers & Good Luck, ‘VJ’
[http://creativeclass.typepad.com/thecreativityexchange/2008/03/the-singles-map.html]
I dont know anyone who, on a first date, goes for anything beyond coffee or drinks. At most it sets you back around $30. So we arent talking big money on first dates (though it can add up if you go on alot). Anyways. its still accepted that guys pay on a first date, though really unjustifiable in this day and age. Unless the woman asks the man out, guys should expect to pay. A guy who doesnt offer to pick it up, that is a red flag.
For the record, I always paid for first dates. But many women expected the guys to keep doing this for all dates, every time. This is probably a bit less so today, but I tried doing that too, for as long as I could. But even ‘coffee’ dates can get expensive. On a student budget, I could scarcely afford the $30-40 we’re talking here, for simply coffee, cakes & drinks & tips & gas& parking. I was pretty much broke, and I never let this fact be a secret from anyone, but I usually found ingenious ways of working around it. I often was lucky enough to win tickets to concerts and dinner off of our local Classical & Jazz NPR station, by guessing the artists playing, the year or even the particular orchestra playing. Often as not this was to the one or 2 decent ‘sit down’ chain venues they had in town at that time who always wanted to drum up more ‘student business’. To this day, as often as she ate in them with me as a student on our dates, my dear wife will not step foot in that certain chain. Not that the memories were not swell, she never quite liked the food! But it was what I could afford, so that’s where we went. If I was living in NYC, I would have been written off by any number of lovelies for such a ‘low rent’ maneuver. My wife understood, it’s how she grew up too.
I’m desperately glad not to be dating now. I know that given my personality and peculiar ways, I’d present a strange case to most of the gals out there. I imagine I still do. But I still think many people are not being given the chance to even come to the table with whatever they have, as they are barred at the door for the lack of funds to enter. Most of us start out poor from school, and then it slowly gets better. I’m still a pretty cheap date. Valentines Day for us was pizza and Belgian beer at a new place around the corner. Sure we do fine dining too when in the mood, and I’ve come to enjoy a good Port after dinner too. But I’m willing to be that I’m about the most frugal member of my family. Possibly the most solvent too, and for good reason, eh? Cheers & Good Luck!, ‘VJ’
Have any of you considered the imbalanced sociology of the dating system, and whether there’s an implication of “drinks/dinner” for “services”, if you catch my drift?
I dont know any women who “sell themselves” for dinner.
2cents, fair enough. I didn’t mean it literally, you know. I just find the artifice of “the man always pays” to be a little uncomfortable, as if “thank you” isn’t enough and gratitude has to be shown in other ways. Not that this impacts my (or anyone else’s) behavior on dates, just an observation…
I’ve been a little too busy for dating these days but back when I did have some first-dates I developed some tricks as young male to deal with this specific situation:
When the check came, I always paid it in full first.
If the girl is a “traditionalist” (the guy pays everything) she would say nothing and be satisfied.
However, if the girl is not a “traditionalist” she will make some sort of gesture towards payment such as
1. the girl is an “egalitarian” (she wants to pay for her half)
2. the girl is “progressive’ (wants to pay the entire check to demonstrate she’s not a traditionalist)
To avoid problems, I would simply say “I’ll let you pick up the check next time.” It was brilliant because a) it indicated that I wanted a next time and b) it put their mind at ease that I wouldn’t expect any “favors” in return for paying the check.
The second part of the trick is to repeat the same “I’ll let you pick up the check next time” on the second date. It was quite fascinating to see which girls remembered that it was actually their turn to pay or simply let me pay each time.
Either way, no bruised egos regardless of what their attitude is towards paying on the first date.