Group therapy in a blog.
I Would Fly 7000 Miles…
And I would fly 7000 more…and I will. Going to Israel, in search of the perfect man. Or at least a city where everywhere has wi-fi.
Oh, I will blog again. But it might be a while. So, to keep you entertained, I present some FOJDA (friends of JDaters Anonymous)–PassionateLife tells you about his wedding plans…ChayyeiSarah gets her long-deserved link for this post about the nice Jewish gir who edited Playgirl… and you can also click on the members of my blogroll. Check them out, leave them comments, and be sure to check back for new content soon.
Happy new year!
Well good luck over there.
Seems to me you should change your scene tho. If you just hang out w/ drinking buddies, not much will come of it imo.
Wishing you great luck in hunting for that most elusive bird of prey Esther. Enjoy yourself, and keep clear of the obvious conflict zones. Oh, never mind that, just go for it! Cheers & Good Luck! ‘VJ’
Having seen people make aliyah for dating purposes and then seeing them run back to the US disillusioned because dating Israeli men or women wasn’t what they thought it would be, not to mention all the other issues that one must deal with when moving to Israel (like the possible limitation fo one’s career ambitions and teh attendant impact on one’s standard of living. And how is your Hebrew? Will you be able to speak Hebrew somewhat intelligently in a couple years or so? Don’t expect to seriously date average Israelis without being able to have a decent conversation in Hebrew).
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE if you are making aliyah, make sure you are doing it out of an honest feeling of Zionism and a willingness to stick it out as long as you can, even if you end up married to a non-Israeli or even – gasp! – an American (one you could easily have met or maybe even did meet on the Upper West Side or in youth group, etc.).
Hot Israeli guys are simply not enough to make a successful life in Israel. You will eventually get bored and annoyed with them anyway, trust me.
I don’t think in Esther’s case, this will happen Treif.
She has been waiting for such a long time. it will likely last.
Anyway, what you are saying applies to relationships everywhere. What happens when one of the partners is not as into it, as they were for the first years?
All heck breaks loose. Soon the man is not having his sexuality needs addressed. So he goes like a fool to a hired hand. It then goes all downhill from there.
But this could be in the USA as well.
“She has been waiting for such a long time. it will likely last.”
I don’t know what you’re talking about here. Maybe there’s some specific man in Israel she is going to see that I don’t know about. That, then is a different story.
But when you go there single expecting to date and marry Israelis, cultural issues loom larger than people think they will.
And when I say that she will get bored and annoyed with Israeli men I mean with Israeli men in general, not a specific man.
The complaint is often made that American Jews are bored by each other and this is why some turn to non-Jews. So many men say they are so tired of JAP types, etc and women say their version fo the same thing.
Then people go to Israel and think everyone, especially the Sephardim/Mizrachim are SOOO hot and start hooking up with them furiously.
What happens after you are in Israel for a few years is that the Sephardim and Mizrachim become ordinary and are not as automatically hot as they were when you first arrived in the country (though, IMHO, still generally more attractive than Ashkenazim, but this is likely because my personal taste in men has always been olive complexioned men) . They cease to be exotic. American women often have bad run-ins with Sephardi and Mizrachi men who do not necessarily have the most progressive attitudes towards women – a big turnoff indeed.
Most Americans (especially women) I knew who married in Israel married other Americans or married some other English speaker like a British, Australian or South African Jew. Second to those might be those who married other Wsterners and then other Olim (though I don’t remember anyone married to Russians. I dated Russians and ironically most American Jews had these decidedly negative attitudes towards Russian immigrants).
Israelis (especially non-Ashkenazi Israelis) being a prize to date and marry as a sign of successful absorbtion is something that fades as the immigrants start to feel more settled in Israel and secure in their identity as Israelis. It’s all part of the immigration game that I’m sure goes on here as well.
Very int. TF. from a man’s perspective, I think that as long as the lady remains fit and attracive, she is always hot.
My understanding is that Esther is going for a few months now, to test the waters so to speak. Probably Ck got her some project that he needs help on for a couple of months or something.
If you have followed Esther’s summer blogging, we saw that she seemed to be so much more at peace and content during her summer in Israel.
That is why many of us, independantly and spontaneously suggested that she move there. Some even assumed that she had.
“from a man’s perspective, I think that as long as the lady remains fit and attracive, she is always hot.” – Steves Rick
Yeah, it doesn’t really work that way for women (though, I have heard that men don’t really work thsi way either. It has been said that for every beautiful woman out there, there is some guy who is tires of shtupping her. Note how beautiful women like Christie Brinkley and Helle Berry were cheated on by their husbands and Uma Thurman was summarily dumped by hers). Generally, a man might be gorgeous physically, but if he does or says something stupid, mean and/or selfish, and especially if it’s a biggie or he does it consistently, he loses his attractiveness in her eyes. Perhaps your wife has let herself go and you are less attracted to her but just teh same, maybe she does not feel teh need to be attractive foir youe because you may have said or sone something for her to lose interest in you.
Anyway, living in Israel can be all peacful and nice for short periods of time, especially when you have living expenses taken care of.
However, I know many people who actually lived in Israel (liek for years, not months) in Israel whose finances were quite unstable. Native Israelis had families to fall back on but olim and people on extended stays in Israel do not have that support system (especially if your parents aren’t willing to bankroll your living in Israel). While this also happens here, it is more likely to happen in Israel if you are not in high tech or something else that is very lucrative.
Once again, a big part of the solution is to MASTER HEBREW. So many Americans in Israel just couldn’t make themselves do that, even after years in the country.
A few months is NOT enough time to find a spouse or master Hebrew. A few months is basically long term tourism. Some peole, especially Americans, live in Israel for YEARS essentially as tourists. Nothing wrong with that, but it should not be confused with really living in Israel.
Good point TF on the personal note. It could be. But still, imo, if you sign up to be married to someone, you have to carry out that part of the deal, if u r as into him as when you first started dating. If not, why the heck would you expect him to remain faithful?
Certainly if someone does something stupid, we are only human. We can learn from mistakes even costly ones. You don’t see women abandoning their loved ones over a mistake. I have for example, a friend who had built up a nice busieness, he was wealthy. Then he got involved in some kind of fraud, and now he is w/out a business, job, is broke. But he smiles, he has his wife.
hey esther, hope you’re having a great time and enjoying not being bomarded with those damn match.com ads every ten seconds. it’s a new year and us vulnerable singles are being preyed upon… and i don’t like it!
Hi,
I’m new to this blog. Seems interesting, but I have a lot of catching up to do.
I’m a 34 years old Israeli single and I live in Ramat Gan which is right next to Tel Aviv.
I started with reading Esther’s announcement about coming to Israel and I want to wish her all the best and good luck in finding her one and only.
If she doesn’t – I’m here and would love to meet her
I read with great interest Treifalicious notes about coming to Israel and I would love to include my input here.
“Having seen people make aliyah for dating purposes and then seeing them run back to the US disillusioned because dating Israeli men or women wasn’t what they thought it would be”
Well, I agree that coming here for this purpose alone can be a hard experience and may end with a big disappointment.
Israelis and Americans (or westerners as a whole) do probably have a different mentality.
I’m always claiming that Israelis are the Arabs of the west and the westerners of the Middle East
Yep, we absorbed a lot from all parties.
However, I have no doubt that there are TONS of Israeli men that will fit Esther’s (or anybody’s) criteria for a good match.
It just takes time, patience, dedication and naturally – luck.
It’s important to say that Esther is not the first Jewish American to come to Israel with this type of mission and many similar stories ended with a huge success.
I will mention one in a minute.
“…not to mention all the other issues that one must deal with when moving to Israel (like the possible limitation fo one’s career ambitions and teh attendant impact on one’s standard of living.”
Again, true, it’s not a walk in the park but many have did it and they’re not looking back since.
My sister works in a job placement agency for foreign language speakers and there are a lot of openings.
No doubt that not knowing Hebrew is a big limitation, but even if you don’t speak the language, there are tons of openings for Native English speakers.
Don’t forget that Israel is quite a Hi Tech superpower, which means most of the sales go overseas, which means there’s a big demand for English native speakers for a variety of positions.
Let me tell you a personal story that may interest Esther in particular, since being a blogger, she obviously has writing skills.
A while back, I had an idea for a website in English that will target an international audience.
I wrote all the content myself with my pretty basic English, but I needed a professional US born copywriter to bring it to perfection.
I knew that around 80% of the site’s visitors will come from the US and I didn’t want them to get a Middle Eastern experience.
I wanted them to think that ‘one of their own’ wrote everything.
I invested a lot of efforts in finding such a copywriter who is US born, experienced and talented – but I could find only VERY few.
This came as a huge surprise.
There are tons of translators but very few professional copywriters.
In the end, I managed to find a great one, but it came after checking quite a few who didn’t have needed ingredients.
The copywriter that I finally took was a great US born copywriter, who lived in Israel for the past 15 years or so.
She too, came to Israel (probably with nothing), met a local Israeli – the love of her life, a banker, learned Hebrew, started her successful business and I’m 100% sure that today she’s very happy with her life choices.
Yes, she took a risk, but it paid up big time.
Today, she’s happily married and has 3 lovely daughters.
“And how is your Hebrew? Will you be able to speak Hebrew somewhat intelligently in a couple years or so? Don’t expect to seriously date average Israelis without being able to have a decent conversation in Hebrew).”
Let me tell you a couple of things.
I believe that anybody who comes to Israel in order to stay MUST learn the language.
You’ll be amazed how fast you can learn the language.
I bet that after 4-6 months in an Ulpan you’ll speak basic Hebrew and after 1-2 years, you’ll speak the language fluently.
Most Israelis speak at least basic English.
Many can conduct meaningful conversations in English.
I still feel that it’s a must to study the language if you plan to live here and not in a cultural Ghetto.
I know it scares a lot of people and yes, Hebrew is not that easy, but when you study it seriously, you speak the language after a while.
Ask anybody who went through the same path.
That’s it!
I hope I didn’t bore you to death with my longer than planned reply.
If you read this far, I’m either a great writer or you’re that bored.
All the best
IG you make several cogent points. Do leave or send along your contact info., right? Cheers & Good Luck, ‘VJ’
Thanks VJ
I’m here: falafel [AT] walla.co.il
More good reads on marriage & current sociology from a saner perspective is here BTW: [http://stephaniecoontz.com/articles/index.htm] from Prof. Stephanie Coontz:
Newsweek, June 5, 2006. By Stephanie Coontz
Marriage has changed more in the last 30 years than in the previous 300. People today have unprecedented freedom about whether, when and whom to marry, and they are making those decisions free from the huge social and economic pressures that once had them marching in lockstep.
I tried posting various reactions to your recent (Dec) column thoughts on a research institute to EstherK.com, but they’ve not shown up just yet. In any case, I trust that this will. Cheers & Good Luck! ‘VJ’