Group therapy in a blog.
Fetishizing Frumkeit
I just know that this is going to be one of those posts…the ones where comments get out of control and the subject matter extends into the NC-17 area and everyone starts arguing. But apparently–and this will be no news to (or reflection on) some of you–there are people out there who fetishize religious objects, behaviors and people. And now that I’m on Facebook, I apparently have a whole group of researchers combing the internet for weird Craigslist postings. And since I had to read them, now I have to share them with you–not to titillate, but to inform. So if you’re one of my more religious readers who is offended by the intersection of fornication and frumkeit, turn this demon machine off now. I warned you.
We’ll start with one that’s not so out of control…looking for a nice “shiksa with a thing for frummers/hasidim?” Who isn’t? This post isn’t crazy–just some nice non-Jewish woman who’s looking for a frum guy to show her a good time. She’s even willing to consider conversion. So, why the attraction to frumminess? Not sure. But while this predilection may be unusual, at least she’s not a total wacko.
Avenue Q taught us all what the internet is for. So it shouldn’t surprise us when someone posts a graphic desire to give oral satisfaction to religious women only. Or, as the dude himself puts it, “I only do frum women.”
If you want a nice Shabbos meal followed by a romp in his bedroom for “desert” — and if you follow the vilna gaon’s “sheetah” on gardening “your business,”–this is the dude for you.
Last summer, I was sitting at Tal Bagels in Jerusalem when a dude started talking to me about what I was writing. I told him “a singles column” and he said, “oh, what kind of sway does rabbinic yichus have when shadchanim are arranging matches?” I said I didn’t know–that’s never come up in my dating life at all (even though someone in my family, and in his, come to think of it, claimed to be related to the Vilna Gaon). But now I’d have to say that there are even dudes who not just want someone with rabbinic lineage, but actually get turned on by rabbinic yichus.
And of course, if brevity is the soul of wit, admire this guy for cutting to the chase: ” I want to have a real scandal in my family by doing it with someone not jewish.”
The beauty (and the shame) of Craigslist is that there’s always more. If you want it.
(For more discussion on this, see Jewbiquitous.)
Well that was somewhat less than satisfying. All the CL listings cited have either been deleted or have ‘expired’. I’ve not run into the latter category all too often either. But yes, there’s a gal or guy for your every whim, quirk, fetish or feature. And the web is the best thing to ever happen to folks who want to meet other folks who think like them. Cheers & Good Luck, ‘VJ’
I confess to not understanding fetishes at all. Not a single one. Perhaps that makes me boring, but I’m okay with that.
There is no real understanding of fetishes. You are either a participant, or share in the affliction or you’re merely a civilian. You can be the object of some fetish and not know this, (as the posts imply), but I’m thinking Ms. CJ might find that a bit icky. People have always have certain inclinations & preferences, fetishes are merely obsessive extensions of these. Sometimes these obsessions can be quite extreme, but most of them are well known and documented by the psychiatric community. So most ‘kinks’ are not quite as special as some would have us believe. For example there’s some fine documentation of ‘clerical kink’ and yes even porn from 100’s of years back. It seemed to have been a European specialty that the French in particular excelled at. I know, you’ could have suspected, right? Cheers & Good Luck, ‘VJ’
Thanks for the link Esther. I actually find the reverse to be more worrisome, when non-Jews, or less observant Jews find my outer trappings of observance to be “sexy.” I had a guy friend from high school tell me that the fact that I [wore] only skirts (generally ankle-length denim) was “really hot.” Often guys tell me that the “modesty thing” is sexy.
I feel ya, Annie…there’s no end to the “Tznius is Hot” posts on Jewlicious…
Which leads into my theory that there is too much emphasis placed on a woman’s looks and her being ‘hot’. I think that women want to be admired and cherished for their minds and non physical qualities, or their taste in clothes, but not just simply being hot.
Men are trained to by so called experts to constantly lavish praise on a woman
‘s physicallity.
I think that internally women resent this.
Perhaps one of the women here could comment on this.
Peace,
Rick
Rick-
my issue is not so much that people find me attractive, or judge me based on that, as that they admire me for the other characteristics. Yes, I agree, I want to be wanted for who I am, not what I look like. However, it is really uncomfortable for someone to take a personal religious choice (like modesty of dress) and sexualize it.
People are not sexualizing the religion. It is the purposeful hiding of the body that is tantalizing. Thats why most men like seeing women in lingerie – because it is meant to hide – andf thus accentuate – what they want to see. When women wear long skirts etc for modesty reasons, the dress code is actually a sexually charged message. You are accentuating your sexuality by wearing an obvious cover for it. It is saying in essence “hey, I have the goods, its right here, but I am hiding it.” That makes it sexy.
As to CL. Many of the frum ads are bogus, fyi. But, of those that are real, most ‘frum’ posters look for other frum people. Not only to they feel they can relate to other frum people, but it serves as a safety net. There is little chance that a frum women sleeping around on CL will rat out/blackmail another frum.
When I was in yeshiva, it was a well known “fact”… the longer the skirt, the quicker it went up (or down, or welcomed visitors under it’s massiver amounts of fabric— if you happened to be wearing a “biz”) … perhaps the tzniot fetish is just that mentality all grown up…
I also think that most (insecure) men are put-off by the idea of the woman of their fantasies being “accessable” to other men. I suppose imagining that their modest dress means modest behavior (with everyone except them, of course) further allows them to indulge that fantasy.
Okay I couldn’t resist commenting on this topic! I have to admit that i’ve always had a bit of a Frum fetish and find it appealing when someone good looking & sexy is wearing a yarmulke or Tefillin. It’s kind of a mix of sacred and ‘dirty’ if you will. I have met other women who have experienced this as a turn-on as well. (I’m not super-religious myself)
Also, the idea of dating someone with Rabbinic heritage (yichus) is similarly appealing, and I am dating someone now with some Rabbinic yichus. I love it. It’s kinda hot.
I doubt i’m alone in this, but who knows?
Theshansta, it’s not a bad thought there. It’s a bit of a ying-yang thing. I was always more turned on to the rebellious types tho.