Group therapy in a blog.
Brilliant Insight Found
In perusing some of my regular dating-related reads, I caught up on my friend JDater Joe, who had the following to say about JDate after corresponding with a woman who then disappeared. (Hilary? Is this another victim of The Bus?)
“When you haven’t met the other party, you end up having a relationship with yourself so it’s always better than it turns out.”
Is this the problem? Should we meet immediately, to avoid becoming lulled into the comfort of a relationship with ourselves, whose company we already love?
Yes, always meet immediately. Or as soon as possible for something short and simple.
But what if I like having a relationship with myself? If I go out with someone else, I’ll miss me!
If going out with someone causes you to fear you will lose yourself then that someone is wrong for you.
Damn, I’m just full of profound insight. Now if only I can grow a buddah-belly!
Sounds like The Bus to me!
I’m with Joe. You have one quick phone conversation just to confirm age, gender, and level of sanity (as best you can over the phone), and then you meet. The days and weeks of drawn out emails, text messages, and IMs inevitably lead to disappointment when you finally meet.
Feel free to check out my blog and read about my misadventures in dating:
http://diaryofadisillusioneddater.blogspot.com. I welcome any insights anyone can offer. God knows I can use ‘em.
Amen to Marc. I even wrote in my profile… “I’m not into spending a long time on deep, insightful back and forth emails before an initial meeting- unless those emails are terribly entertaining. If I like your profile and photos, and our initial contact does not make me doubt your sanity or ability to maintain a decent conversation for half an hour, I’ll suggest we meet for drink after work. Life’s too short”… of course jdate’s editing process butchered it, cutting out the word “email” (among others) and deleting the o-u-r in “hour” which made me appear slightly incapable of maintaining a decent conversation, but, turns out, most men don’t read that far down anyway. The ones that did, generally appreciated the sentiment.
I met my boyfriend for our first date a week after our initial JDate contact and we’ve been together over 7 months now! Chutzpah will probably crap on my happiness, which she no doubt enjoys doing due to her own unhappiness, but after years of fruitless online dating and several failed long-term relationships, I can say with complete confidence that I have finally found “The One” and he has told me he has found “The One” in me! Will we get married? I’ll be sure to keep you posted!
Jody,
Honestly, I am happy for you. Really. Gives me hope that it could happen to me. And it makes that new skit on SNL “The A-holes” even funnier when I think of you.
I have enjoyed all my Jdate Adventures as they have made me more self-aware and built up my sense of humour. I’ve made quite a few friends that I keep in touch with. The first guy I met on Jdate is still a very close friend, and we recently celebrated the 4th Anniversary of our friendship (not platonic, platonic, not platonic, and now platonic as he is very serious with a neighbor in his gated neighborhood for divorcees).
However, I find you rather self-righteous and obnoxious in your “I did it right so the rest of you must be losers” attitude. You remind me of Blaire.
I think JDate probably works wonderfully for the 25-35 year old set. My bitterness is more towards men over 40 who think they deserve the perfect, “baggage-free” young woman merely because they have a penis.
I am not thrilled with JDate’s pricing or their lack of return policy, but overall I think they have been on the cutting-edge in the dating industry and in online marketing since their inception. I have often stated my respect for their initiatives and business strategies. I especially like their JDate gives back program, as I value corporations that try to be good “citizens”.
I am not happy with my love life, but I am no longer looking for “The One”. I hope I will never have to rely on one person to fulfill all my companionship needs, and that I will have different friends and lovers for different interests. Yeah, I’m particularly interested meeting someone who is compatible with the bad girl/biker chick/rocker/tantric sex star in me, but that’s just because the daughter, mother, friend, writer and entrepreneur in me are all happy right now. (Not that I mean to sound like Cybil, but I’m an eclectic and diversified kinda gal).
Gee, Chutzpah, didn’t Esther tell us to refrain from name-calling?
And I don’t have an obnoxious, self-righteous attitude; that attitude would definitely belong to you! All I did was share my experiences, is that so wrong? BTW, don’t know the SNL skit you are referring to, so your sarcastic joke is lost on me. 
Please go get laid, you seriously need to do so!
Ladies, Ladies- not sure where the shout out to Chutzpah came form in Jodys initial post, but you do sound very happy and fulfilled in your relationship with “The one”. And Chutzpah- I applaud you for using jdate to find men to match all your personalities… I personally believe that is the best way to use it. Then, if you get lucky and find someone as varied & interesting as you, it’s a surprise bonus! (if that sounds sarcastic, it should not- I’m serious… low expectations, high hopes… that only rear their head very occasionally) Personally, My “one” didn’t read enough of my profile to know anything about me except that I treasure my disco ball and “am not a pet person”. The fact that we lived 3 blocks from each other in po-dunk NJ did not become evident until our first date. All I knew about him was one of his fave shows was The Fresh Prince and he didn’t believe in trying to change a person. 6 months later we were engaged. The “ones” come at all unexpected times in all shapes and sizes. But unlikely they will actually be who you imagine them to be if you’ve been chatting with them daily for a month b4 meeting… which was, I think, the point of the original post.
I always come away with more questions after one of these exchanges. Would JdateJoe think that the old Woody Allen maxim might apply here, as in self love? But I tend to agree, the sooner with meeting up, usually the better. You’ve got to churn the sea to come up with the fishes that might be in the ‘keeper’ pile.
Chutzpah, where are these interesting sounding ‘gated neighborhood for divorcees’? How might one be confined therein? Is this a penance or a sentence? Of course everyone would feel a bit better about services like Jdate if they actually published some relevant stats. so that folks might be able to judge their success historically & realistically. At the moment I think what’s bothersome to many (besides them costing as much as a full Temple membership for a year), is that there’s absolutely no proof that the ‘connections’ or introductions made endure or provide more lasting/satisfying companionship much beyond what Craig’s list (or similar service) might do for free. It’s nice that they give to charity, we all should. But I’ve been giving to charity all my life, and it rarely ever got me dates. It may be the same for Jdate too. But bless you dear for your almost completely hidden socialistic tendencies: “as I value corporations that try to be good “citizens—.
So again how can I judge a product if I can’t tell it successfully does what it claims to be doing? It’s not like this information is unavailable to the owners & managers of the business, it’s just that they continually refuse to tell their desperate clients this. I suspect even being very generous, perhaps no more than 1-2% of their client base comes away with a mutually satisfying, LTR/ relationship out of their membership. This may indeed have more to do with human nature & psychology and sheer luck. But it may also make better than 80% of all their other clients ‘suckers’ in the hokum sense of the term. That’s not a business model I’d be particularly proud of, but I’ll agree it can be quite lucrative to play on the hopes, dreams and fears of the ‘romance’ market.
Cheers & Good Luck! ‘VJ’
See Jody, there you go again with your “ha, ha…I can get laid anytime I want and you can’t , nah na nana poo poo”… you don’t have to rub it our faces that you are so sexually satisfied!
It’s not that easy to go get laid. First , you have to find a disease free guy with good teeth and good hygiene, which rules out about 80% right there. Then you have to pretend to want to talk to the other 15 %. The 5% that you would actually want to fuck and talk to, or even the ones you’d just want to fuck, usually don’t want to fuck you because you are too old or too fat or you might want to have an emotional connection with them. Not easy.
Cricket…which part of Jersey isn’t Po-dunk?
VJ, Gated communities exist all over but usually are geared more to your age demographic, Mr. 23-Skaddoo. The ones for divorced people with a few kids, which provide health clubs and all the sex you can have within a 10 block radius are being built by smart developers in good school districts. After one receives the proceeds from the sale of one’s marital home, if one doesn’t need to pay that entire amount to one’s lawyer, one has to roll that money over into another residence that doubles as a bachelor or bachelorette pad every other weekend and half the holidays.
Generally, one doesn’t judge a product, one makes an impulse buy based on a desire to fulfill some real or imagined need. An investor can judge a publicly held corporation by it’s annual report and stock performance…even a lazy frat boy knows that.
Don’t bless my socialistic tendencies, I just throw them out there to appear politically correct on occasion. Let them eat cake.
Great. Try to say something nice and you rank on my neighborhood? That’s special. Wow… this thread went downhill quickly.
Hi all. Referee Esther here to remind you of the rules of non-engagement.
1) Try to avoid crapping on each other.
2) Try to avoid judging people based on a sentence or two of their writing.
3) Try to be considerate before hitting the “publish” button.
4) Try to avoid the craziness of “you just need to get laid”/”no, you do” clever banter that isn’t really clever or banter.
5) Try to respect the fact that JDaters Anonymous is supposed to be a sounding board and a healthy environment…
Come on, people!!!
Esther, truly sorry to you. I really enjoy your blog. All I wanted to do was to share my experiences. It was NEVER my intention to be “self-righteous” nor “obnoxious”, as Chutzpah put it. But when I get unjustly judged and attacked, I’m going to attack back! You may need to enable comment moderation–just a thought.
Cricket, I live in Jersey, parts are nice but there aren’t enough gated communities for divorcees and I happen to live in a Jewish ghetto that I hate and can’t move for a little while longer. Thanks for being nice. I’d prefer to be somewhere where the high altitude makes people fall in love, like Denver.
Sorry for my nastiness, but I really don’t judge… I make nasty remarks, but I don’t judge.
In Israel (like 7 – 8 years ago, when I first started internet dating) I used to give men my phone number to call me and arrange a date after one or two e-mails. Now that I am in the US and can’t do this anymore I basically try to start the process of arranging a date (though entirely via e-mail most of the time) after the first or second e-mail. I usually give my phone number once a decision has been made to have a date and usually just in order to contact me if he is late or something.
One one of the 1st internet dates I went on EVER (again, In Israel) I had a wonderful phone conversation with this guy and I was all psyched to meet him but then on the date there was absolutely nothing. In fact, I may have even become slightly hostile to him by the end of the date. I did end up befriending a friend of one of his coworkers that we met up with during the date, though.
It is my belief that you will NEVER know if there is any chemistry or any real basis of a relationship until you meet in person. Anything else is a waste of time.
Ah, I see the problem here right away. I rarely make ‘impulse’ purchases or decisions. I’m conservative like that. Still, most gated communities come with neighborhood/Homeowners associations. These are dangerous undemocratic and yes, communistic enterprises that I try and avoid like the plague. I’d recommend others do likewise, whether living in Denver or NJ. So no matter the sex the might be in the offing, they are generally not worth the risk & the hassle. But of course this has little to do with the original post. But neither did any subsequent comments address my main point about the Jdate scam. Cheers, ‘VJ’
It’s not a scam if people are forming relationships. It doesn’t matter if those relationships don’t lead to marriage. I made many contacts through Jdate, including someone who was able to help someone very close to me get a good job. Works the same way the Fraternity/Sorority scam works. You network, you meet people, good stuff happens if you stay positive, the organization stays expensive to remain exclusive. My sorority raised dues my Senior year and I couldn’t afford to stay active that year. Sucks to be poor. I can’t afford Jdate right now, hopefully in 6 months I will. (I can’t freakin’ believe I’m defending Jdate!)
A gated community no worse than the housing scheme that goes on in the Shtetl in NJ where I live which works like this: rich Jews come in and buy up property owned by poor blacks and hispanics. Poor blacks and hispanics take the money and run to get away from other poor blacks and hispanics. More Jews move in because they hear the poor are moving out. An eruv is built around the community to demarcate where the “desirables” want to live. Prices within the eruv go up, poor Jews can’t move in, rich landlords profit. Pretty soon the rich Jews are in bed with secular politicians, making sure the public schools are put on austerity budgets and there are extra cops around the shuls and yeshivas…walla…gated community without the security booth, just a couple hundred ribbons on the telephone polls.
E- sorry to be off topic again…delete if desired.
VJ- I don’t think jdate knows those stats… at least not accurately. I say this from my own experience. I dated a man for 5 years I met on jdate. Jdate did not know that. His first wife was a woman he met on jdate. Jdate did not know that- nor would they have known about his subsequent divorce. I met my husband on jdate. They don’t know about that either. My uncle-in-law, in his 70’s met his new wife on jdate, a woman in her late 50’s. I doubt jdate knows about them either. My mothers former business partner met her husband there as well, and they are in their 50’s. I am friends with 2 couples in their 20’s who met on jdate. Jdate knows about them but only because they both auditioned to be in the jdate ads.
I don’t think I’m that unique in how many jdate couples I personally know- and that is not including the numorous aquaintance ones I’ve met. (at least half a dozen- some married) I think success has a lot to do with where an individual is at in life, not to mention age bracket, location and expectations. I also think that for a lot of people the process of actively dating online and keeping a positive outlook brings more offline opportunities into your life… When you are feeling good about yourself, getting out there and enjoying life, you draw positive energy & people into it- not to get all “The Secret” on you- but it’s true.
and wait- Chutzpah- you live in NJ and you ranked on it? Then it’s ok… i rank on jersey all the time. I will say though, to your description of a “gated community”, remove the word “jews”, replace “eruv” with “starbucks” and you’ve just described manhattan.
Well Cricket, I’m happy with your relative experience of success with Jdate. I did not say it was worthless, just that they should be aware of their ‘success’ rates & publish them. This is not fantastically difficult nor ‘impossible’ either. We gather stats on other complex social & economic phenomenon all the time. I’ll even define ‘success’ as broadly as Chutzpah. Given it’s a ‘social introduction service’. My null hypothesis is that the extra money anyone spends on the service imagining that this ‘creates’ some sort of exclusivity is not gaining anyone any more satisfying or lasting results vs. services that could perform the same service for free, or certainly for less than the fees that they are charging. So it’s nice to form relationships & friendships that might aid us in our daily toils, no matter their romantic content. This is a social good. my central question is the cost I’m paying for this universal social good, and the efficiency to which this might be achieved. That such good is almost universally desirable does not help in making the question any less necessary, or even sometimes painful to contemplate. Cheers, ‘VJ’
ok, VJ my friend, and believe me, I say this with love…you need to stop typing and go play with your wife. Fast. What is she up to when you are doing all this economic theorizing about Jdate? My guess is it’s rated XXX.
And this just in: a nice lawyer from Brooklyn who I met on JDate just got engaged to a nice girl from Minneapolis and they met on JDate! Many Simchas!
I was just thinking about this the other day. At long last I’ve committed to a long-term relationship with myself and am not scrambling trying to find a man to break up with myself for. This takes a lot of the panic out of dating (or battle as I’ve come to call it, hence the name of my blog). So now I’ve met a really great guy and for once I’m the one taking it really slow, keeping the everydayness of a relationship at arm’s length. I guess I want to keep things going with myself as long as possible before I have to start sharing my time. I think I will have to start thinking about “two-timing” for the first time in my life. That way I can have me AND him at the same time. I suspect a future blog entry will come of this, so thanks for the thought-provoking post.
VJ- I must have missed the point of your reply. or post. or something. You stated that you cannot trust that jdate has a proven success because they refuse to provide stats on successful relationships formed due to their services. My point is simply that they do not know those facts. If you are then saying that their services are so expensive but the high fee does not directly corrolate to greater chances of success, well, you are correct. However, the fact that they have cornered the majority of the market, therefore attracting the largest number of potential matches might translate into greater chances of success. It also might translate into “If you want our product, you’ll pay the fees” which sucks, but that’s business. Supply and demand. And let’s face it, I’m sure the people who have met their mate never said “man- what a waste of money”… at least not until the relationship fizzled. And there are other, less expensive sites, but the selection’s not quite as varied. Or specific… depending on what you’re looking for. If, however, you were suggesting that jdate use it’s additional funds to create a survey that they email to all previous members to determine if they formed any relationships from their service, and other such fact-finding information, I’d say that’s probably a good idea. I know I would take the time to answer it. Of course, I have a very boring job and look for stuff online to keep me busy during the day.
http://www.myspace.com/arihest
OMG OMG OMG…I found SUCH THE PERFECT sexy semite…don’t know if he’s single and sorry he’s not a “regular” person but a person on a major record label instead…keep those nominations of sexy single regular, everyday Jewish men pouring in.
On the topic of the original post, I agree with the statement
“When you haven’t met the other party, you end up having a relationship with yourself so it’s always better than it turns out.â€Â
I tried to tell this to a guy who traveled from NYC to see me after we’d been talking online and on the phone for a few weeks. He felt we knew each other before we met in person and that meeting would be an extension of that. He didn’t understand it – or agree – when I told him that we’d built each other up in our minds and meeting was different. For him it wasn’t as if we were meeting for the first time. He assumed that there’d be chemistry because we got along so well before we met and had convinced himself that he was attracted to me before we even met. I think he was having a relationship with himself, or the me that he created in his mind. I told him that we’d built each other up in our minds and that even if you try not to have expectations you can’t not.
I also find that if I don’t meet a guy in person almost immediately he goes into the Friend Zone. Maybe subconsciously I know that if I really wanted to meet him I wouldn’t wait. Or maybe waiting causes lost momentum. If I think I could be attracted to a guy I’ve met online I try to make a conscious effort to meet him soon so that it doesn’t disappear.
I’m going to leave this anonymously because I have a blog and I don’t need everyone knowing this happened (except Esther because she’ll see my e-mail address and I don’t mind). I heartily agree with the “meet ASAP or you’re just having a relationship with yourself” sentiment. Except it didn’t work that way for me because my online relationship (not from a dating site) was with a guy in Europe. It was clear from the start there was something between us but it just wasn’t possible to meet right away because of the geographic distance. Finally after four months of non-stop chats, phone calls, pictures, videos, webcam conversations, etc., he flew here.
It turns out that even in this case, when you think you know the person extraordinarily well, you really don’t. You just can’t possibly know a person online as well as you know them IRL where you see them in many situations, warts and all, interacting with other people, eating meals with you, and, well, physically. Even chatting six hours a day and a hundred videos and webcam calls don’t get you there. The visit to NY turned out great, but in reality it was the energy of our online relationship and the joy of actually being in the same room that carried us. When I went to Europe a month later it ended and badly. It turned out that I wasn’t what he wanted physically and he wasn’t all I thought mentally. Online relationships are connect-the-dots and your mind fills in the blank spots. It takes a meeting to see how close you were to the real picture.
Meeting a date soon as possibile is always a wise idea. I prefer to chat with them at least 3-5 days before meeting in person just so I know that they are (a) sane (b) not a robot.